Today in "No thanks Toyota, I'll take my chances"

"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay) 01/05/2019 at 23:59 • Filed to: None

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Got my recall letter in.

There really haven ’t been any instances of this failure on the forums, even in high RPM track usage. And knowing just how much is involved to do this job I think I ’m going to pass. All things considered, I’ll be curious to see if there is an uptick of separate issues on cars shortly after the repair is completed.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:05

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Counterpoint: selling or trading in a car with an open recall can be a bit of a hurdle.

Decay buys too many beaters > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/06/2019 at 00:08

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Counterpoint^2: My car has a salvage title from a deer incident. Resale is not exactly a focus.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:10

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Do they have to take the heads off to do this? Free head gasket replacement ?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:10

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[lowers hand]

wafflesnfalafel > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:10

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If you don’t want your free valve springs I’ll take them...

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:11

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You have to think the FRS engines are “slightly” more robust than the standard subaru 2.0. I mean they actually rev and have some HP.

Decay buys too many beaters > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 01/06/2019 at 00:12

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The procedure lays out a way to do it without head removal. The main issue is resealing the front of the motor. Getting it wrong can clog oil galleys. That’s the way most rebuilt motors fail. 

Decay buys too many beaters > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/06/2019 at 00:13

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And I’ve been revving mine 1000RPM above the factory rev limiter for the last 10k miles ¯\_()_/¯  

Decay buys too many beaters > wafflesnfalafel 01/06/2019 at 00:14

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If they’d just hand them to me across a counter I’d mail them your way :p 

jimz > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:16

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There really haven’t been any instances of this failure on the forums

which means... what?  if there’s a recall, then there have been instances of this failure. 

Decay buys too many beaters > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/06/2019 at 00:17

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I also have a spare, later production ( non recall ) motor sitting in my garage.

Decay buys too many beaters > jimz 01/06/2019 at 00:19

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The report to the NTHSA said there were 94 failures in 400,000 engines produced. That’s a .02% chance. 

DipodomysDeserti > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:20

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Manufacturers don’t really issue recalls when a problem isn’t happening a lot.

Tekamul > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:24

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Shit, I have one of those.

Haven't received a notice yet though.

Decay buys too many beaters > DipodomysDeserti 01/06/2019 at 00:25

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The report said 94 failures

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:26

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My ST is recalled and I have a similar attitude. They are known to overheat and sometimes catch fire.

But I haven’t had any issues since upgrading the cooling system

Decay buys too many beaters > Tekamul 01/06/2019 at 00:30

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Just early cars. 2012 through early 2013 production dates

Decay buys too many beaters > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2019 at 00:32

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Yeah, I figure if it was really prevalent I’d have heard about failures from the community. But nothing on top end fails.

.... I’ ve also got a spare motor sitting in my garage. This is a very low risk decision   for me

Tekamul > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:32

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Good, mine is late 2013 (Series-10)

Decay buys too many beaters > Tekamul 01/06/2019 at 00:34

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Yeah should be fine then. You dodged the bad tune on super early cars too if you hadn’t heard of that. The one that would burn direct injector seals when you revmatch  aggressively above third gear.

E92M3 > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 00:39

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That’s pretty generous of them for just 94 cases of failure.

BMW on the other hand has hundreds of cases of rod bearing failures in the S65, and they say, ”sorry , it’s not a safety issue”

Decay buys too many beaters > E92M3 01/06/2019 at 00:45

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I think there was a few cases of crashes due to the issue. So it’s a “safety issue”. Rumor is something to to with an EPS issue that occurs when the motor shuts down. I can’t really see it though, should keep working as long as it has electricity.

DipodomysDeserti > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 01:04

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The chronoly of defect report to the NHTSA doesn’t give a number. It just says field data led them to issue a recall.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RMISC-18V772-0340.pdf

Also, you responded to JimZ that there were 400k engines. According to Subaru’s letter to the NHTSA, it’s about 165k engines.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCAK-18V772-9160.pdf

They did recall 400k vehicles at the same time, but about 230k of them were for faulty fuel level software.

AestheticsInMotion > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 01:09

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ECU tune or is the fuel cutoff really that far above redline? 

Decay buys too many beaters > DipodomysDeserti 01/06/2019 at 01:11

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Ahh, so it is. I need to go back and look on the forum thread. I know there was a document I read at some point where that 94 num ber came up.

Decay buys too many beaters > AestheticsInMotion 01/06/2019 at 01:15

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Fuel cutoff factory was 7450, I have it set to 8500. Longer legs in first and second help in autocross. 

AestheticsInMotion > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 01:18

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Do you get much * oomph* past factory cutoff?

Also, is the spare engine just a spare engine or are there crazy- engineer plans for it? 

Decay buys too many beaters > AestheticsInMotion 01/06/2019 at 01:24

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No chance, it falls off a cliff. But you still save two shifts for each time you can hold second instead of going to third, it adds up.

The spare motor was just a backup I bought to minimize downtime in the case of an engine failure when the car had a turbo. It’s just not worth the effort to build subaru motors, I’d sooner swap to something else before putting a lot of money in to an FA20.

DipodomysDeserti > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 01:34

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Only thing I found was from a Japan Times article which said 94 cases had been reported, but it doesn’t say who they were reported to and doesn’t cite a source. I also think they’re referring to Japanese cars.

I hear you, though. I would not want a dealer mechanic cracking into my engine.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 01:46

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I aspire to one day have extra motors for my vehicles on hand.

Decay buys too many beaters > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 01/06/2019 at 01:53

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She was turbocharged for a while, didn’t expect that motor to live long so I picked up a spare in lieu of my warranty. 

Echo51 > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 01/06/2019 at 05:08

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It’s awesome, along with having complete spare parts cars you can grab anything you need from...

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 07:55

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Though most of those 164 ,000 were Crosstreks  and Imprezas , which presumably don’t get revved so high so often on average. So I’m betting the odds are worse for the Twins.

I’m in the trouble zone too. I think I’m going to get it done - mine doesn’t have a lot of miles on it so I can’t confidently say it’s ok, and I’m planning to hang onto it for a few years. My biggest concern is that it’s a Toyota version and Toyota dealers won’t know boxers so well. OTOH that hopefully means they’ll follow procedure.

Dusty Ventures > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 01/06/2019 at 08:58

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Head gaskets were an EJ issue, to my knowledge it’s not a problem on the FA motors

Decay buys too many beaters > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/06/2019 at 11:32

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Its a straight forward procedure. Two things that cause issues in that area.

1. Removing old sealant. It’s really time consuming to do right (days) and a sloppy job can lead to pieces of sealant caught in oil passages and starving downstream components (like the big end bearings)

2. Resealing the front cover. Using too much sealant, or in the wrong area, or improperly placing the cover, can squeeze it out into oil passages and starve downstream components.

Since most of the affected cars are out of warranty, and they don’t seem to be offering any kind of extended warranty after the work is completed, puts owners in a potentially bad  spot if the big end bearings skim a few months after the repair.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 17:13

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Please will me the triple or the husky when you die from not doing the recall.

Decay buys too many beaters > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/06/2019 at 18:20

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I think you could probably do more with my AMG... ¯\_()_/¯  

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 19:26

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That pretty much stacks up with the homework I’d done. I’m in a slightly better position in that N ew Zealand law creates an implied warrantee for a reasonable period of time,   regardless of what the manufacturer states. If the engine fails in the next few years due to a demonstrable workmanship defect (eg an oil passage blocked with sealant) I’d have a reasonable case against the dealer, even if the car itself is out of warrantee.

Of course proving it is always going to be a n issue....

Decay buys too many beaters > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/06/2019 at 20:03

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It’s one of those things that’s really time consuming and expensive to prove. You could find yourself deep in the hole if you pay for a full tear down an d don’t find anything. Don’t know about your area, but here used FA20s are fairly cheap. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 20:10

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Your AMG is more than I can handle

Decay buys too many beaters > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/06/2019 at 20:20

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I hear that a lot  

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Decay buys too many beaters 01/06/2019 at 22:08

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Nothing’s cheap in New Zealand!  I could probably bring one in from Japan, but for just a spun bearing it’d be cheaper to do a rebuild. Most of the cost (or work) is like l y to be in getting it in and out anyway.

Ah well, if worst comes to worst there’s always a Synergy :-).